Hyslop Bros

...my attempt at attaching some pics.

Nice Hyslop bike.With a few home made parts I would think.

yeah cool set-up, never seen anything like it!!!!

looks dangerous

what sprocket does it have?

 ... the fellow I got it from was reclaiming barn board in Shelburne and found this under a collapsed floor. 

It looks like the 'special', frameset in the 1922 catalog but ...with some personal touches.

 The serial number appears to be,  I 31 03 8.

Funny I was thinking that brake set up looked dangerous too. There is a slight bend in the tube under that link pivot plate.

Anyways,  Ive been ogling it for a week .

..more pics.

...

Looks like there was a speedo on it at one time . You can see the gear on the front hub and mount on handle bar stem.

Hi Dave, yes, I asked the seller right away about that, that's all that was there tho.

I'm hoping to identify the specific speedo by the wheel gear. All feedback and insights are apriciated.

It's an interesting machine. The extra stuff on it is a bit weird but it sure adds personality to the bike - I hope you keep it the way it is and resist the temptation to strip it down. What is the extra tube attached to the downtube? I thought it might be a homemade battery tube for the lights but I notice the light has a generator on the front tire. Is it holding a tire pump?

It looks to be original green paint but it's hard to tell from the photos. Can you confirm that it's not an overspray or was applied by a brush? Judging by the "camelback" frame, dropside fenders, and steel rims, it looks to be from the late '20s or '30s, which would make it the latest Hyslop I've seen. The handlebars look to be chrome too, which would support that time period, as chrome didn't come in until the end of the 1920s (unless they are replacement bars of course, but they look original). Some of us have been trying to get more information about the company including the final year of bicycle manufacture/assembly, but without much luck.

By the way, (notice to everyone) I'm looking to buy a Hyslop, (or Humphrey, or Planet) to build my made-in-Canada collection. I'll pay cash or offer in trade one of a few very nice bikes I have to get one. I'm in Toronto and will also be at the show in Brantford on the 19th.

Hello Brian,  the frame paint looks original. .. the add ons appear to have been painted to match.

Yes that is a pump attached to the downtube. 

I do plan on leaving as found... but rebuild the headset and bb so I can take it around the block a couple of times. The wheel hubs feel surprisingly smooth.

I've got a bit of a Toronto specific interest  myself. Check out my other thread in the Introductions fourm I think, 'my Humphrey Planet'.

More pics to come.

The Planet...

I'd bet that nothing associated with the rear brake is OEM. The wheels are obviously too small for the frame, so the 3 speed drum bake almost certainly isn't OEM. These hub brakes were designed to be actuated by a cable.  The brackets, tie rod and chain linkage are obviously home made. The brake lever is a retro-fit ftom a rod actuated stirrup brake.  I'm not sure if the bell crank is home made or salvaged from another bicycle.  Personally, I'd ditch the whole set-up and run a cable to a cable hand lever. Eliminating all the couplings and pivots would definitely improve brake feel and probably performance, while dropping a fair amount of weight, though you'd lose the Rube Goldberg atmosphere, if you like that sort of thing.

Regarding Hyslop, there is an extant 1926 catalogue, so they lasted at least that long, though it's unknown whether they were manufacturing, assembling or contract ordering at the time.

Thanks T-Mar,  that's just the info I needed to move forward.

If it was all original , I wouldn't alter it.

 Having confirmed my suspicion that the bike has been modified, means I get to dig in.. do a complete rebuild and try to return the Hyslop to its  original intend configuration.

As for the wheels, they are the 28x1 1/4 Dunlop Imperial  tires shown as OEM, in the 1922 literature . The fenders didn't escape modification either. The front is moved back under the fork crown creating the gap behind the front wheel. . and the rear has been altered and reinforced to support the retainer for the drop stand. Are there bigger wheels? Its possible the fender alterations could be making the wheels appear undersized.

Notched and riveted fenders. .. custom rim paint

The fenders are the same profile and width as the CCM fenders on the Planet bike.

When looking at the photos I did not feel the wheels were too small, and when Doug stated that they're 28" that confirms it. I think the gap at the front fender is there because the front fender is bent out of shape. I had a 1945 CCM that was doing the exact same thing (see photo). If the green paint is original, then the red pin stripes on the rims are likely original too.

Doug, the reason I said I hope you keep the bike the way it is, is that all of those bizarre modifications are part of the bike's history and make it more interesting. It was one individual's vision of the perfect bike. There are many old bikes that are all-factory-original, or great for riding, and those attributes give those bikes value, but in my opinion the value of this bike comes from the owner's individualization of it. He made it his own. In other words, I think this machine is more "historical artifact" than it is "bicycle" if you see what I mean.

Here is the 1945 with the same bent front fender (and a much more boring bike):

p.s. I love the Humphrey-Planet Doug, awesome bike! If you want to sell or trade it, give me a shout.

Brian    I agree thst bike has great character (the Hyslop) it should not be altered.  Of course Doug it is yours to do with what you wish but I would hope only a good clean up.   Someone has done some back yard engineering.  Probably using only a hack saw hand drill, hamer, filr etc.   Not great modifications but they were trying.  I would like to know the age of the engineer.     Ron

I am definitely not a Hyslop pro, I have only owned one in 20 years

but I don't see anything Hyslop other than the frame and headbadge

the frame rear drop-outs, frame welds are a match to my bike

but the rest, all look CCM to me, from different decades none the less!!!

is the rear STOP reflector glass?

if so, I would pay good money for it :)

I would personally remove all the "extra stuff" on the bike and return it to somewhat original .... the bling all looks 50's to me

do you have a close-up of the SA stamp on the hub, might have a date stamp ot might help to date it?

P.S. what is that thing going from the seat to the rack?   a toilet paper roll holder?

It's always a dilema. On the one hand you want the freedom to have fun with your own bike, making changes and improvements, and after all we don't have an obligation to play the role of private museum, using our own limited real estate to house "culturally significant artifacts" that are not functional. On the other hand, it's often a permanent loss when original antiques are "restored" with fresh paint and parts. I think the solution is to answer this question on a case-by-case basis. For example, I bought a 1937 Monark Silver King Flocycle that had been retrofitted with the same English 3-speed, lever brake hub that I believe is on Doug's Hyslop. In that case, I felt the cables ruined the original intention of the designer which was to create an aerodynamic bike influenced by the streamlined era (imagine cables on a CCM Flyte!). So not only did I buy a wheelset with the correct rims, hubs and tires, but went even further and put on streamlined grips and pedals that are correct for the streamlined era if not the bike. It's not factory original, or as-found original, but rather my tribute to the bicycle's place in the streamlined era. In the case of the Hyslop, I think it shows the self-reliance and ingenuity that farmers often applied to their machinery - repairing anything with a bit of binder twine as they say (I used to work on a farm in my high school days).

Anyway, Doug, congrats on the barn find. I hope you keep it as-found original (as opposed to factory original), but have fun with the bike whatever you decide to do. Cheers.

good point Brian, I also like to preserve a bike when it's worth preserving .... a true beautifulcustom (I like Ken's Flyte)

a 3 speed Flocycle would not be a problem for me either ....  but you know that   ;)

but in 20 years I have bought many of these crazy bikes and all of them were for parts

I don't see any ingenuity, 'farmer' like engineering here

most likely this bike was owner by the "crazy" old man in town

there is a such a bike/guy in every Canadian and American town IMO

in Trois-Rivières, it's an 80 years old man that rides around in an over-the-top bicycle like this and he dresses up like Lucky Luke .... I am not kidding !!! 

but it is a heck of a good conversation piece for sure.... there is as much discussion on this thread as there has been all year long on this site 

The reason the back wheel looks small is that the rear axle is right at the rear of the drop out. Chain stretched out or to long.

 Gentlemen,  you have basically reiterated my thought processes this week since bringing the Hyslop home.

I commented earlier that 'If it was all original I wouldn't alter it'.... but..and I realized this shortly after I got it home.  It is,  in its own way, 'original'.  So that being said I can't bring myself to un-modify this obviously very loved survivor.

I'll take care of some minor cosmetic and alignment issues, (courtesy of that barn floor?), and do the necessary bearings, it's unlikely I will even clean it ...but only make it rideable. .. as part of my evaluation of course;) 

The rack has some sort of rain kit or plastic tarp strapped to it under the seat..it seems plI able but i don think ill unwrap it either.

I'll post a pic of the hub soon.

... thanks again to all that have contributed so far.  I'll post more pics of details on request, patience required tho I'm a bit of a noob on the fourms.

...

Doug, I have a balloon Humphrey with the exact same paint job as yours!!!

looks the same year

$100 reward

I have a pixie engine, but need the stuff that goes on the rear wheel. If anyone would put me in touch with a person who would sell me that equipment, I would pay that person $100 '$'finders fee'' There is a bike show coming up back east, perhaps looking there, would be a good idea.I need the ''controls'' that go on the handlebar as well.

cheers,

Lawrence 250 538 7171

I bought the "Winner" badged bike at the auction today because I believe it's really a Hyslop. It's identical to the bike on page 9 of the 1922 catalogue - same frame, chainring, fenders, etc.  I already had the chain guard so I thought I should get a bike to go with it! When I got to the auction I found that sure enough, the badge is not orignal to the bike, having vertical holes, while the horizontal badge holes were visible (the previous owner drilled new holes that will have to be filled in. So, after much searching I finally have a Hyslop! Now I need a badge. My guess is it's probably the round one with the flag - help anyone? I like finding untouched original bikes like this. The very old chain tread front tire is still soft. The Lycett saddle has some very nice tooling on it.

good eye Brian, this is for sure a Hyslop .... good find .... I was wondering why this bike went to $575!

the saddle is almost identical to the one I have on my Hyslop!

fenders as well

Hyslop badges have been reproduces, I think I saw some recently on Ebay

do you think it's original paint, does it have the trademark decal on the down tube? if it's OG paint, it should be there

There were only two wood-rim bikes at this auction. Ordinarily the mens bike would fetch more than the Ladies bike, and the Quickstep Mens was an early 1900s CCM product too. The problem with the Quickstep was that it was a real "frankenbike". The front hub, chainring, crank and pedals were later chrome-plated replacements. The stem was not original either. The rear sprocket was 1/2" pitch while the chainring was 1", and the chain was modern. The frame was the victim of a serious head-on crash and had been banged back into shape with a hammer. The badge was missing both top and bottom inserts. I bid on it as a parts bike, for the wood rims, fenders, bars, rack, and maybe the saddle. The buyer knew what he was getting and it sold for $350. The Ladies bike, although missing a chain guard and one grip, is an all-original bike. It even has little metal hooks where the skirt guard attaches to the fender. I think the paint is original but can't know for sure without giving it a good cleaning. It doesn't have a decal, but after almost 100 years it might have worn off.

some of the cups and crank assembly parts look to have been painted black, common in repaints, 

or is it just rust, dirt and "patina" Brian?

I had a closer look and yes there appears to be black paint on the lower headset cup. I also notice red paint peeking through scratches on the head tube but nowhere else. It looks like there might be non-original paint elsewhere on the bike but it's really hard to tell if someone painted the entire frame or just attempted some touch-ups. In any case, it looks like is it was done a loooong time ago as the bike has plenty of grease and dirt on top of the paint. I will attempt to carefully apply a paint removal technique on the head tube to see if the bike was originally black with a red sunburst head tube. I have another bike made in 1914/15 that is black with a green sunburst head tube, so it's possible. I also noticed the fork has closed ends where the axle goes through, which leads me to suspect the bike is quite a bit older than 1922. Does anyone know when bike makers started to open the fork ends for the axle to drop out?

I don't think you can date a bicycle by a close/open ended fork Brian

my three original paint 1936 Iver have close ended fork

and my two 1897 Crescent have open ended fork

my Hyslop also has a close ended fork

Thanks Max. ...Bummer. It would have been nice to have an additional dating method available. One odd thing about my Hyslop is that the rear fender (with skirt guard holes) is the shallow type with raised flat center section, while the front fender is the shallow rounded type. You might be able to see that in the above photo. So, I'm left wondering which type is original to the bike. One clue is that the front fender is loose at the head tube, and is being held in with a screw into a piece of wood that's been jammed into the head tube. Someone wrapped a little piece of binder twine between the fender and head tube, probably to keep it from vibrating. Perhaps the bike didn't come with a front fender originally, or it was damaged and replaced with a different type. Which type of fender does your Hyslop have? If it had no fender originally, and we had access to more catalogues, it would help put a date to the bike.

My Hyslop has fenders like your rear fender.

Your rear fender is the original one, and the catalogue shows a front fender on the ladies bike and you see how low to the ground it goes, so more likely to get damaged

catalogue list your bike as all black only!   with no options and no striping

When I removed the front fender from the fork of my 1910? IVANHOE I also found a perfectly round piece of wood in the bottom of the fork stearing tube with a screw holding the fender on the bike. For how original and complete this bike is I'm sure this was a common production practice in the day.

Walter

I don't think CCM used wood in the headtubes!!!  My teens CCM don't have it.

If anything, cork would be more probable, as they did use it in some seat posts

That's interesting Walter, thank you. I had heard of the piece of wood solution for restoration, but it's entirely possible that technique was used in original production as well. After all, automakers were making car bodies framed in wood at that time so why not use a piece of wood to hold in a fender screw? I can especially see this happening in smaller operations (Planet, Humphrey, Hyslop) if not at CCM, during the time period when bikes were just starting to be sold with fenders as standard equipment when previously they had none. It would be a far cheaper assembly line fix than welding in a bracket with a threaded hole to the bottom of the fork tube.

Max, I'm sure corks were used in the seat posts to keep water or moisture out of the bottom bracket and would not have held a screw under load for any length of time.

i have seen many bikes with that piece of wood in bottom of fork crown. Whether it was from new or not is hard to tell.

I, also recently removed a short wood dowling from my circa '10 CCM Pastime. The factory theory is gaining traction!

without pictures to prove those preposterous claims ... I just can't believe the "gaining traction" theory .... sorry Ken  ;)

seeing is believing .... lets compare those "short wood dowlings"

While I can't comment on whether it was ever regular practice at CCM or not, wooden dowels inside the bottom of fork steerer tubes were a fairly common practice in the industry, in the early days.

The puropse was twofold. While it was used to secure a fender, it also served the purpose of reinforcing the lower section of the steerer tube. This region is very susceptible to bending and breakage. If the headset adjustment is not properly maintained, it is easily bent in the event of a collision or crash. It is also subject to high and prolonged heat during the manufacturing process which, if overdone, can lower the endurance limit of the steel to the point where it will eventually fatigue and fracture. The wooden dowel decreases the probability of failure and, in the case of failure, temporarily holds the steerer tube tube together to prevent a catastrophic accident.

Of course, there are other solutions, such inserting a press fit metal liner, metal plug, higher grade alloys and/ or using a butted steerer tube. However, in the early days and times of economic recession, many used  the oldest and cheapest solution, which was a wooden dowel. I've seen cases where some framebuilders continued to follow the old practices and use wooden dowels, even on butted steerer tubes of high grade alloys, well into the 1980s.

As an engineering material, cork would leave much to be be desired in a steerer tube application. However, it is perfectly adequate to plug a tubular seat post and prevent road spray from dripping off the underside of a saddle and contaminating crankset bearings.

Regarding open versus closed end fork tips, my observation has been that it appears to be more a function of the grade of the bicycle than the age. Less expensive molels were more likely to have closed end tips, as they were less expensive forks. 

Thanks Tmar. Here is another picture, from the 1915 Hyslop catalogue, which gives us the likely explanation for why my bike has mismatched fenders: it's an older bike sold new without a front fender, and the rounded one was added later. It's still likely that some bikes of that period were sold new with a wood dowel in the fork, but maybe not this one. It's difficult to understand why companies would sell a Ladies bike with no front fender. You would think they would get covered in mud from the front tire on the first wet ride. The bike has a Lycett Imperial No. 83 saddle. I've tried to date the bike from the saddle model number, but no luck yet.

Seeing is believing.

Walter

Brian, this is pure supposition, but I have a theory for the single fender  configuration. I don't think the fender has anything to do with protection from mud. In this case, I believe it's sole purpose is to act as a mount for the skirtguard. Most ladies would typically not ride in muddy or wet conditions but the fender with skirtguard and chainguard would still be required, even in dry conditiions, to prevent  dresses and skirts from getting caught, torn and possibily causing an accident. 

I think you're right. There's a fenderless Ladies on page 7 of that 1896 Eaton's catalogue you posted - perhaps the thinking was if you don't need the skirt guard you don't a rear fender either.

Sorry, that Walter posted.

I cleaned up the rear hub to find the markings. It says HERCULES BRAKE PAT. No.106391 PAT. Pending. It also has a 1" pitch chain. It's not unusual to see Hercules brakes on Hyslops. In fact, the few Hyslops I've been able to lay eyes on have all had Hercules brakes. They must have been supplied by CCM. 106391 is a Musselman patent from 1907. With that plus the patent pending, and the 1915 catalogue picture, I'm thinking this bike is from sometime in 1909-1915.

I got to ask Brian, how many Hyslops have you seen???

because in 20 years , I have seen 2 .... you must be in a Hyslop circle